015 Liz Joyce
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[00:00:00] Hey, everyone. Welcome to fostering excellence. Inability the podcast. I'm your host competitor, coach and mentor Megan Foster. I help agility enthusiasts focus on the small details of training and behavior while still having a clear understanding of their big picture goals. Join me as I take you through key elements of dog agility, training, competing, and teaching, and how you can take action today to start improving your skills within the sport.
Let's get started. Hey everyone today. I want to introduce you all to Liz Joyce. She is the founder of canine handler fitness, where she runs a speed and agility development program. Agility handlers called fast and agile. . She has been in the fitness industry since 2006 and has logged over 15,000 client training hours to date.
She has a gift at making [00:01:00] fitness, accessible, manageable, and effective. We talk all about her approach to fitness, why she loves working with dog handlers and so much more. You guys, Liz. Is my personal trainer, my fitness coach, and more importantly, she's a, that has become a really good friend of mine. And I am so excited for you all to hear our conversation about how we both tackle coaching and giving feedback, and just kind of geek out about things in general.
Enjoy.
Hey, Liz, welcome to the podcast. Thanks so much for having me. I'm really excited to be here. Ah, I'm so, so excited to have you on and have you chat about working with students and kinda how you go about motivating them and giving them feedback to keep them engaged in the [00:02:00] process? Uh, especially. Like my own experience with fitness training and working out is that like dog training, the gains are not immediate all the time.
It's hard work. It's sometimes a hard habit to maintain. And I wanna know if you struggle to keep your clients motivated and why or why not. That's a really good question. Um, you know, and I just wanna first say that. Yeah, it is a hard habit to get into that's for sure. It's physically uncomfortable and it does take a little bit of time to.
Get the results that are motivating in and of themselves. And generally speaking, I'd say that I don't really have a hard time with that. Um, but I really strive to thoroughly understand the person's motivation. And also their [00:03:00] end goal and everything that we do in between where we're at and where they're going is packed with positive reinforcement and also a draw parallel between what they're doing right now.
And how it's a stepping stone from where we're at to where they wanna go. And in that way, they can see small successes along the way to their bigger goals and celebrating those smaller successes. I find really helps keep people on track. Totally fantastic answer, obviously, because like, and when we focus on the small things, we can see more immediate gains and mm-hmm, also making sure that we are being true to that big picture goal and idea of where they want to get to.
Yeah. Do you find, I also kinda, yeah, go ahead. [00:04:00] Um, I also kind of find with fitness training and dog training that like the foundations and the small things, dog handlers, specifically understand that. So thoroughly with like the smaller details leading to a big picture, that just is amazing. So in particular dog handlers, I find easier to motivate in that.
Yeah, thanks. That's a good point. Yeah. Um, so I have a, maybe a bit of a tangent of a question that, what, what, what is your experience if they're not sure what the big picture goal is? They know that. They want to work with you. They know that they want to improve, but they're not sure where they should be headed or what they can expect at the end.
I know I get some clients like that when they start working with me. So does that happen to you all the time? Yeah, [00:05:00] for sure. Um, I think people come to me often wanting to feel good and that can mean a lot of different things for different people. Sure. So what I normally do with that is take a big picture of the person's life and the things that they like to do and work towards making those things easier for them first and also helping their body be a more comfortable place to live in whether that's stretching or rolling or.
Different types of exercises to work on posture or more core training. I find if I can help the person live in a more comfortable body and also enhance the things that they like to do with their life, that out of that comes some excitement and motivation from them, from them. Sorry. And often that comes with.
A list of goals now, cuz they're like, oh, I can actually do this. And wow. I didn't really think about where the [00:06:00] horizon could be, but I have an idea of what's possible now. So can we try to work towards something more specific? And that happens a lot. Brilliant. Yeah, that is that's. So it's fascinating how those goals can evolve and also the nuance in.
Coaching yeah. Where you have to kind of telescope out and take that big picture snapshot of their life and kind of weave your coaching into their current existence. Well, I think that's key. Is that it has to fit into their life. Yeah. Or it just doesn't happen, you know? Totally. And I'm sure that happens with you too.
It's like we have as coaches expectations that people maybe have, you know, an hour a day to do this thing, we want them to work on, but maybe they only have [00:07:00] 15 minutes and maybe it's just three days a week that those are all factors we need to take into. Consideration when we're designing plans for people.
And that's a big piece of it too. I find. Yeah, for sure. You've similarly to myself, you've worked with clients, both in person and online. What do you find the differences are with that? Um, well, , these are different beasts. They are, it's a really different, it's a really different thing. Um, you know, in person, the, the adjustments can be more immediate and I do find.
Because I'm physically there in, in versus maybe doing programming or self-study class, I'm actually there. So I can set props up, adjust weights, move things around for them. And [00:08:00] in that it sometimes can feel a little bit more like, you know, um, they don't develop the skills to do those things on their.
and the people that I work with online doing programming and self-study classes, there's so much adjusting and moving things around on their own. The thing that I love so much about that is that as a coach and as a human, I know that the people I'm working with are being set up to take care of themselves in a very powerful way.
And they hold the skillset and that feels. Really important and responsible as me as a, from me as a coach. So I like both. And I find that the people who I work with online learn more long term than the people that I work with in person.[00:09:00]
Yeah. I think you. Verbalized my whole thoughts on in person versus online teaching as well. I was wondering about that. Yeah. Cause then sometimes it can feel a little, you know, like if you do everything for them that they maybe don't think about it as much. Right. And I know from my personal experience in both, when I.
Go to a class I'm already investing, whether it's fitness or dog training. If I go somewhere, I have to invest the driving time and the time there mm-hmm and then driving home. And then it may not feel like I have the time or the space to apply that same amount of time outside of the in person class versus.
if it's in my home [00:10:00] and I have the instructions to refer back to and I have that space and time to play with it. You're right. I can yeah. Experiment on my own. I can go, well, that doesn't feel right, but if I try it like this and then I can kind of, I can work through it a bit more on my own with a bit more confidence.
Because I am doing it without constant supervision, so yeah. That's. Yeah. And I totally, I have, I have experienced the same thing with students that I've worked with in person and online and their growth was much faster when we went online. I it's fascinating. I find that fascinating too, and I didn't do a ton of online coaching.
you know, COVID world shutting down time. yeah. Um, I didn't do a ton of it. I did [00:11:00] do some programming and I wasn't totally sure how that was gonna pan out. And it's kind of blown my mind, how quickly my learners progressed. And also, I just feel amazing that you, Megan would be able to, if you wanted to in the future.
Go to a class or go, you know, paddle boarding or something, do whatever you want and you know how to use your body better without someone being there to kind of, and I hesitate to use this word, but I'm just gonna throw it in, cuz I can't think of a better one, but nag you along the way. So yeah, that's a good point that I can generalize those skills more easily.
Yeah. Ooh. Yeah. And, and I also find that. Sorry, go ahead. Oh, I was just, I was gonna say that I know that some people that are resistant to online learning, there's that learning curve of the technology and [00:12:00] finding a consistent time and, and that's real, but once you're through that, yeah. Everything that we're talking about right now is possible.
Oh, it's also so beautiful because I find working in person with people, like when I'm a learner, when I'm a learner and we'll talk about my dog training, learning when I'm in a class setting or I have a coach physically there, I feel so much pressure to get it right the first time out. And when I have instructions to do things on my own at home, I can play with it.
Get it right. And also learn so much more about the relationship with my dog and maybe what he needs and what I can do to give that to him in that moment, whatever we're working on. Um, more comfortably, I think emotionally for me than having someone kind of looking over my shoulder, if that makes [00:13:00] sense.
It does make sense. And I think that also speaks to kind of the, the environment that is sometimes really, really challenging in a group learning setting, or even if it's not a group just in, in person learning setting that totally there is this pressure to. Please the coach to warrant. Oh, that's real thing.
Praise from the coach. Right. And I, I wanna move away from that. I don't want that to be the motivator. Um, but it, but it is real and we have to, we have to actively be combating that kind of culture throughout everything that we, we do as coaches and as students. Right. I agree. Uh, So I wanna talk about how go ahead.
You personally, your kind of [00:14:00] approach when you start working with someone, how you set them up to be successful.
Well, when in fitness, just like in dog training too, there's. Like a, there's definitely a program that, to kind of follow, generally speaking first, you wanna be able to make sure that they can do basic movement patterns and then more advanced movement patterns and then, you know, more multi-joint movements and so on.
So setting people up to be successful in my opinion and experience the very best way to do that is to not give them. Exercises or tasks or challenges, that're really much further beyond the scope of what they can currently do. So if they can do you know, if I, if we're looking at a to Z and they can do a to C, I'm not gonna ask them.[00:15:00]
Okay, next time, can you do M cuz that's just gonna crush motivation, crush, self belief, damage the relationship between. Them and me I'll ask them, can you do C and a half mm-hmm and then if D is looking really hard for you, what about, and you I'm sure have heard me say this a ton. This is hard for me. Why is it hard?
What feels hard? Does it feel too tight? Does it feel unbalanced? Do you not feel strong enough? If you don't feel strong? Where is it not strong enough? And then I build that piece. That's hard for them up. So the whole thing gets easier. So that was kind of Ramly, but overall I break it into really manageable chunks.
I stretch their abilities just a little bit, and I address any of the shortcomings or maybe that's not the nicest word, but like foundation stuff, I guess the, the details of [00:16:00] how they're moving and what they're doing so that the whole thing comes together better. Yeah. I don't think that was ramble at all.
I think that was. Spot on. And just to kind of put it in terms of dog training that my listeners are maybe listening or used to hearing is that you're looking for their prerequisite skills. You are looking to see what they are already fluent at and then building their next level based on their current level of fluency.
Stop explaining things better than me. no, that was actually perfect. That's what I meant to say. That was perfect. Yes. I agree with all of that, right. Like I, I wanna cuz we say this all the time in dog training, like bump in your example of like C and a half [00:17:00] is yeah, we don't, we don't leap up. 13 levels and difficulty.
We no kind of push the wall of impossible. And you've done that to me so many times where you say, all right, let's do this. And I'm like, you, what? I'm sorry. Excuse me. You're crazy. Seems impossible. And I do it, or I am like nearly there and it, that is the most empowering feeling. Feeling that as a human I'm like, whew.
Is that what it feels like to be my dog? I hope my dog feels like this all the time. right. Yeah. No, it's, it's powerful. And it makes me want to actually do the workout when you're not watching. Uh, because I am, I'm seeking out that feeling so that it's. [00:18:00] Beautiful. I hear you. and it is . I totally agree. But we both do that thing where, you know, you know where you want your dog to go, and I know how I want you to feel in your body.
So before I ask you to do something, I know the pieces are in place and it's just gonna be a stretch. You. Yeah, exactly. So speaking of that, when we, we set them up for success, you set them up for success and you're kind of bumping that line of what's possible what everyone needs feedback in, in those moments.
And. That's why we have coaches for life and business and fitness and dog training and all the things mm-hmm . So what is your approach to providing that feedback in the moment when you've got them right in front of you? [00:19:00] Ooh, um, you know, overall my primary, my primary focus when a person needs feedback.
Is to make sure that I am using like positive reinforcement. So as much as I possibly can and I make sure that I do so I shouldn't even say as much as I possibly can. I make sure that I highlight the things they're doing really well. And then pick one or maybe two things that are gonna be the most impactful for what they're currently trying to do and have them keep all the really good stuff.
And then just clean up a little bit of the things that aren't moving so well, and I find, and you might find this too. I'd love to hear your thoughts on this. I find if the feedback is harsh, um, or even unintentionally harsh. That it really does affect them wanting to continue [00:20:00] trying or be excited about the process cuz it's hurts.
You know, it hurts your feelings. Yeah. It, I, I think you're spot on in that if they're not hearing anything about what they did well, the default is, is to assume. We did nothing all bad. Right? Yeah. And so, and then, so even if you're not, if that's like the baseline, you're only focusing on what was a little bit off and then you deliver it harshly.
That's how we kind of get into that toxic culture of wanting to please the coach. It's not the, the motivation isn't to learn the movement or to learn the front, cross it, the motivation is to not get yelled at. Yes. and it does feel a little like aversive, you know? Well, it totally is. It's uh, avoiding punishment is a negative reinforcement.
Yeah. Contingency, not a positive reinforcement, uh, [00:21:00] contingency. So totally. And the, the important thing in my mind about what you said was that you pick out one thing. To change that it's not all of these things were great. And I also want you to change your toes and lower your hips and look forward it's like you're, you have to focus on the most critical of those three mm-hmm and choose the one that if you, if you change one thing, the other two things will kind of fall into place almost automatically all.
And it does. It does go that way. Yeah. I think another thing about giving feedback in that manner too, is that the learner gets this message of possibility all of the time. And I think that that helps people, you know, even back to our very first [00:22:00] conversation in this podcast about keeping people motivated there, it's way easier to motivate people who believe it's possible.
and that's a big part of conversation that I have with people all of the time is just building this belief that they can. Yeah. And I think that, that that's a big piece of giving feedback is like, yeah, I'm giving you feedback. And also, you know, you kick butt, so keep trying, right. Just have to clean up one thing and then you can do it.
It's gonna be great. Yeah. No one, no one wants to play a game that really important. No one wants to play a game. They can't win. Right? Like, it's impossible. Like if you know, you're gonna lose, uh, I mean I'm not into those games. Yeah. Well, I'm certainly not. And I don't think, I don't think most of us dog trainers are into losing[00:23:00]
no. No, you know? No, I would agree with, with that. I think most areas of life people don't really wanna lose all the time. It doesn't feel that good doesn't feel that good. Um, no, it does not. But speaking of doggy people, you're also an avid dog person and work with a lot of dog trainers nowadays, be honest.
Are we a different breed of client? Um, I'm trying to think of something cheeky and funny, but I'm not that funny. So , I'll just say yes. Uh, yeah, it's a com you know, it's a very different, it's a very different, it's a very different thing. I dog handlers by far, or my favorite clients to work with, like by far, I just find.
The understanding of [00:24:00] foundations and details is so clear and so much a part of how handlers on the large want to learn and how they absorb information. And for me as a coach is really rewarding and exciting and fun. I spend my time with handlers talking about. How are we gonna get to the next thing, or this is hard.
What can we do to change this? Or I think we need to revisit some more foundation stuff in this one area. And I don't spend time getting buy in to do foundation stuff. That's the understanding is there. And I think that that really is the biggest difference and it's really refreshing. And I really, I really love working with Handl.
Yeah. Hear that. Y'all we're doing it right? Yeah. yeah. Yeah. You are though. You really are. Yeah. [00:25:00] It's really, it's refreshing. It's awesome. I, I have loved this conversation so much. I feel like we have covered so much ground. And before you go, I want to ask you one final question and it's a doozy. If you could wave a magic wand and fix one thing about the fitness industry, what would it be?
Well, you know, someone in the industry, I. I find the there's a couple of things that really suck, um, about my industry. They really suck and I hate them so much. So the number one thing for me is that there is just straight up, not enough, you know, education experience. [00:26:00] Options in terms of, you know, instruction, class, et cetera, for people that are not at what the fitness industry currently takes as a, you know, a base level of fitness.
And I find that that really sucks a lot for a number of reasons. And the number one thing for me is that those are human being. That are kind and wonderful and need help and need help more than someone who the fitness industry currently would consider at a base level of, of fitness. And that is frustrating for me, as, you know, as a human and as frustrating for me as someone in that industry.
Um, that's the number one thing that I would love to change, and that gets tied in with a bunch of other stuff too. You know, my second thing probably would be, you know, there's a large, there's a [00:27:00] lot of fat phobia and discrimination stuff that can go on in the fitness industry. And while I see that changing a little bit, um, it's not happening fast enough and there's just not enough, you know, there's not enough kindness.
And there's like a whole lot of messaging that goes on. People living in larger bodies, like even the options for clothing to wear when you're working out or limited everything about it kind of feels like, you know, you're not welcome in some way. And I hope that whoever is listening to this and you know, is maybe in that situation, I genuinely hope that that hasn't been your experience.
And I do see that that happens a lot. And I ha those are the two top things that I would like to see. And I think you are a driving force in that change and you are just recruiting [00:28:00] members to help you make sure that that is possible. I really strive. I really strive for that. Um, I really strive for that.
So yeah, that's one of my biggest goals is when I think about my trajectory for the next 3, 5, 10 years, what kind, you know, what do I really want to leave humans with? And, you know, this idea of being, and also having belief and tools. And then the other side of it too, is like for people. Different body shapes or maybe physical ailments or things that can be, um, harder to gain and maintain fitness levels, I guess, for lack of more thorough thought about how I would like to explain that is like, you're welcome here.
And there's space for you here [00:29:00] and there's options for you here and you belong.
Oh, brilliant. Right? Yeah. Changing the world. That's a big task it, but I'm gonna do my best. And we are here for it. Believe me. I will be supporting you every step of the way. Um, well, if your support in the future has been anything like your support in the past, I believe you . You got it. You've been amazing.
I, yeah, you're you actually are really inspiring clients for me to work with too. I love how you tackle tasks and just consistently work at things and get stronger and better all the time. It's really amazing. Thank you. I appreciate that. Okay. Liz, this [00:30:00] has been fantastic and enlightening and inspiring.
And just kinda, I, I know talking with you kind of fuels me to go be amazing at whatever I'm doing. And so if people want to. Reach out to you or find out more about your training and your coaching opportunities. Where should they look?
Well, I have a website and it's canine. Henler fitness.com and the, the canine is spelled out, not the letter and the number. Um, alternatively, you could friend me on Facebook. My name is Liz Joyce. Or I am on Instagram, not that active on Instagram. Don't expect a whole lot there, but I am there as well. My handle's canine handler fitness.
Excellent. I will [00:31:00] put all of those links in the show notes. And I, you saying thank you. You are so welcome. Thanks so much for taking your time and sharing your thoughts with us today. Thanks so much for having me. It's been great and yeah, it's been really great. Thanks for having me. Thanks for listening, please subscribe and leave me a.
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